the interest in self-defense they have is a significant one. i think it actually does a disservice to the debate to suggest it's only the nra with this interest in self-defense within the window where the state really cannot respond. it's a private crisis. >> this is incredibly important to you. it feels like part of what goes on is a sense of if communities are disarmed, which in one way makes perfect sense, take the beef and turn it into fistfights instead of gunfights and everybody lives with it. given there are so many weapons, there are a lot of good guys. the grandmas who say look, i want my guns. they are part of protection against the bad guys and importantly in a city like chicago, a history where the police themselves, the state doesn't necessarily make you feel safe. there's been inadequate policing in those communities or the wrong kind of policing in those communities. >> well, you know, my thing is you have to keep working on changing behavior. you cannot change the circumstances all the time throughout the united states. i had a